Lead Generation Without Discovery Calls: Building a Client Engine

How do you turn your intellectual property into a system that qualifies clients before you ever get on a sales call? In this episode of The Tarryn Reeves Show, Tarryn sits down with business strategist Maeve Ferguson, creator of The Client Engine, to unpack how diagnostic assessments and quiz funnels are helping authors, consultants and experts turn their IP into automated, high-converting client engines.

Maeve has helped bestselling authors, global speakers and elite coaches, including Jen Kem, Selena Soo and Mike Kim, scale sustainably by building diagnostic infrastructure that does the heavy lifting most lead magnets never could. In this conversation, she breaks down the difference between a quiz funnel and a true diagnostic assessment, why most quizzes fail to convert, and how agentic AI is being used to score, segment and qualify leads automatically, so sales teams know exactly who to talk to before the call even starts.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why most quiz funnels don't convert, and what a true diagnostic assessment does differently
• How to build funnel congruence between your offer, your IP and your diagnostic questions
• The three types of diagnostics (quiz, score-based, multifactorial) and which one fits your business
• How agentic AI agents identify "platinum," "gold" and "unqualified" leads automatically
• Why rich-niche positioning is the fastest way to attract higher-ticket clients
• How to weave a diagnostic into a book launch to pre-sell before publication day
• What sustainable, scalable business actually looks like when you're not chasing leads

Whether you're an author preparing to launch a book, a coach or consultant tired of low-intent leads, or an entrepreneur wondering how to turn your expertise into a scalable digital asset, this conversation offers a practical, data-driven look at how to build a business that attracts the right people, automatically.

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Transcript

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Today on the show, I'm joined by Maeve Ferguson, who is a sought-after business strategist and creator of The Client Engine, a proven system that helps authors, consultants, and experts turn their intellectual property into automated sales machines. With a background in private equity and experience working with seven- and eight-figure thought leaders, Maeve combined sharp strategy with entrepreneurial momentum. Through her signature IP Engine Method, she's helped bestselling authors, global speakers, and elite coaches scale sustainably without chasing visibility or relying on guesswork. Featured in Forbes and seen on Jen Kem's stage, Maeve runs her multi-six-figure consultancy from her horse farm in Northern Ireland, all while raising two young kitties. Maeve, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Tarryn. Thank you for having me. Said kitties just knocked on the door, so I hope they're gonna head on to Crescent School without disturbing us. they come in, it is totally fine. I'm a mama too. Lots of our audiences are moms and parents as well, so do not stress. Do not stress. All right. So you have done some pretty incredible things. You're also known for turning intellectual property into automated client engines. So can you walk us through exactly what that looks like? Yeah, so essentially, whenever you think about a lot of the thought leaders in this world, they have intellectual property, they have their process, their methodology, their unique mechanism. Their IP ends inside the book or their IP ends on stage. And essentially what we do is turn that IP into diagnostic assessments. So if you've ever been through the likes of an Enneagram or a Myers-Briggs or any of these strength finders, those type of assessments, so that that body of work can be codified and live beyond the book and beyond the stage. Yep, that's amazing. Very similar to what we do in my publishing company, Automatic Authority. And you're completely right. A lot of entrepreneurs, paid speakers, they will write the book and then they don't know what to do with it. They don't know how to leverage that. And so like you said, it stalls there. But books and speaking events can really become client engines. Now, the difference between you and me is that you use a lot of data because you have a background in that data-driven diagnostics. So talk to us about data-driven diagnostics versus the fluffy lead magnets that we see out there that a lot of people are putting out and are not actually converting for them. What is the biggest mistake people are making? Yes, I love this question. And essentially, if you think about a diagnostic assessment or what people more commonly call a quiz funnel, the whole idea is that it is generating qualified leads to come into your company every single day at scale. And often what happens is people put so much effort into building their assessment or their quiz funnel, and then they go live. And that's where the conversation ends. And invariably then what you hear when these things are not built correctly, we hear the narrative of "Oh yeah, I tried a quiz. That didn't work." But what they haven't realized is A, it is was probably built incorrectly. It wasn't built as a scalable asset and when we actually go live with the diagnostic, that is day zero. And we do a lot of work with agentic AI. So we build a lot of these AI agents for our clients. So once their assessment is live, essentially, that becomes as we put water through the pipes. You know, that's what I call leads. We have to put water through the pipes. Our market starts to tell us, inside of the data, exactly what they want, exactly what's going on, who's buying our high-ticket stuff, who's not buying our high-ticket stuff. And over time, we're able to use the data, use the insight that our diagnostic assessments are giving us, to kind of build these feedback loops to our top-of-funnel copy, top-of-funnel messaging, top-of-funnel positioning. For example, during a keynote. We have a few thousand people go through our diagnostic at the end of that keynote. So it's a really powerful lead magnet. Essentially, how the people are answering our questions, how their buyer behaviors, their patterns is giving us a model to follow for what good looks like inside of our market. Over time, as we run water through the pipes, these agents get smarter and smarter and smarter at spotting. Here is what we call inside of our company, here's a platinum lead, here's a diamond lead, here's a gold lead, a silver lead, a bronze lead, or an unqualified lead. And essentially, we call it the high-ticket hidden by your finder. These agents are able to then spot, as people go through your diagnostic assessment, here are the people who are ticking all of the boxes and are showing us, by their behavior patterns and how they're answering these questions, that they are going to be a 70K client. This person's probably going to be a 50K client. This person's probably going to around a 15K client. And then with automations and all of those fabulous things, it allows us then to make sure that our closers, the sales teams on our client teams, are getting tagged with like, here are the most pressing leads for today. And essentially, you know, every single night, we run a hidden high-ticket buyer finder report. It's all run automatically that then when the sales team come in the next day, they know exactly who to focus on, exactly who to have the conversations with. And then they let the automated follow-up nurture sequences, that is the industry standard, they let those things handle all of those lesser qualified leads. Amazing. So the AI that you're building for various people and companies is doing so much of that heavy lifting. And I can imagine that the conversions then are a lot stronger because nobody is slipping through the cracks. It is driven by data. So you know who's a hot lead, who's a cold lead, who's someone to not even bother chasing, I suppose, when it comes to business. Is that what you're seeing? Yeah, so that's one aspect of it. And I always talk about it. So the diagnostic assessment is the foundation. Okay. Cause what most people do is they wake up a lead magnet, at best they get a name and email address and maybe a phone number. They don't actually know anything about that person, what their struggles are, where they are, what stage of the journey that they are on. They don't have any information. And then what most people do then is spray and pray marketing. They're sending the same email to everybody on their list. Just kind of crossing their fingers and hoping that something is going to stick with something on there. So these diagnostic assessments do hyper segmentation on our lists from the get go. So we know exactly the investment potential of every single lead. We know what they're struggling with, what their best areas are, their struggle areas are. And then you can do this bespoke follow-up implementation with them, bespoke conversations, bespoke results pages, bespoke reports. The whole thing is automated. But that foundation must be in place to then allow these, what I call these accelerators, which are the AI agents, they act as the accelerators to have this thing self-optimized on autopilot every single week. So the more and more water we put through your pipes, the more and more buyers that we have, the more data that we have about the behavior patterns of our market. And then what we're able to do, and again, it's AI agents that do the doing. Essentially, they are able to feedback to us. Okay, this top-of-funnel Facebook ad copy, for example. So let's pretend we're running paid traffic where these are the types of people these are bringing through. These people are tending to fall in and buy our 10K thing or 5K thing or a 50K thing. And then what we can do with these agents is feedback on a weekly basis. Reviewing all of the Facebook ad data, reviewing all of the analytics of how these people went through the diagnostic, because obviously we're able to track all of those parameters and then feedback to the marketing teams to say, here's the angle you need to try. Here's what's working. Here's what's not working. And it's all down to first having that foundational asset in place. That is the lead generation machine that most people think is just a quiz. And then layering in these agentic AI solutions to turn that into a self-optimizing flywheel. Amazing. So why a quiz specifically? Because a lead magnet can be anything basically. It can be it can be an ebook. It can be a book chapter download. I know that you're big on quiz funnels. Why? There's a couple of main reasons. And when we think about the standard PDF lead magnets, the level of intent is very low. So everything is like auto filled for us now. Okay. So people are scrolling Instagram. They see something cool, some PDF guide to whatever. And basically it's auto populated. They barely remember signing up. It's probably going to go to their spam. They may open the email, probably don't check the PDF. Ghost, you know. That's kind of where the journey ends, never mind somebody seeing your call to action on page 14 of said PDF. That's one side of it. There's a level of intent. The other side of it is where we have this desire for self-discovery. And when you go through a diagnostic, so for example, you go through Myers-Briggs, I am an INTJ. There's an element of self-discovery. You go through Enneagram, I'm a three with a four wing. You learn something about yourself, and it is personalized to you. So the beauty of a quiz funnel, in terms of how it solves for the level of intent, is that if somebody is going through our diagnostic, it takes a good eight minutes to go through that. That's somebody with a very, very high level of intent. There's a lot of know, like, and trust built throughout the process. A lot of people talk about completion rates. I want my diagnostic to spit people out. If somebody doesn't have eight minutes of attention, they're never going to have the intellectual property to be able to work with somebody like me. So I actually use it as a filtration mechanism. Somebody says, this was too long. Great. You're not for me. OK, So that is one thing. There's a buy-in. There's a know, like, and trust factor. And then the second element here is that it is personalized. So when you go through a really well-built diagnostic assessment, you're going to discover something about yourself. You're going to learn something about yourself. You're going to see where you stand. Let's pretend it's a score-based assessment. You get a score on in this area. You're doing really, really well. But in this area, you're sitting at 27%. Here's where we got to focus. But the copy that person one sees is completely different to what person two sees. The offers that are placed in front of them are completely different based on everything I just talked about before in terms of A, their ability to invest in themselves; B, the offers that we have available; C, the struggles that they have, and how those things all kind of combine together to make sure that we're putting the right message and the right offer in front of the right person at the right time. So there's this kind of duality of level of intent as well as the personalization. You're landing on a results page and instead of saying, "Your PDF has been sent to your inbox," and there's that's where the conversation ends, there's a deep-dive results page that is personalized. It's saying, "Hey, Tarryn, here's your results. Hey, Maeve, here's your result," breaking that down, and it's actually about you, not just some blanket PDF thing that was sprayed out to the whole market. Yep, I love that. Okay, so let's talk about high-performing quiz funnels because, I mean, there's so many programs out there where we can just put together any old quiz and hope for the best, and it's usually pretty crap, to be honest. What are the key elements that make a high-performing quiz funnel convert? Yes, I love this. So basically what we always start is begin with the end in mind. A lot of people sit down. What could my quiz be? Some people go on ChatGPT and like, "create a quiz." That thing's not going to convert. We got to begin with the end in mind. Coming up with your hook is one of the very last steps in our process where we do this kind of diagnostic infrastructure where we actually build out the architecture of your quiz. That comes last, not first. So begin with the end in mind. We want to what are our offers, where are we sending people, what are the price points, what are we solving for instead of our existing offers. Now you can have multiple price points across these offers. You can have multiple offers or you can actually still have one offer that you're going to position differently based on the result that the person gets. So we'll come back to that in a moment, but whenever we begin with the end in mind, we got to then reverse engineer from this offer. What's our sales mechanism? And the sales mechanism, we're not going to have calls with an application form and calls with a closer for a $47 thing. Doesn't make sense. And we're probably not going to have a click-and-buy for a $70,000 custom It's going to involve a sales conversation. So we want to choose the sales mechanism, making sure that it's appropriate for said offers that we Now we're back to the sales mechanism. Then what we want to do is look at your intellectual property. This is the key difference between what I call a "What type of Disney princess are you?" quiz funnel that give quizzes bad raps and a true diagnostic that allows your IP to live beyond the book, to live beyond the stage. And essentially, then we call to a decision criteria. Are we going to build a multifactorial diagnostic like the Unicorn Leadership Type Assessment that I built for Jen Kem or Enneagram or the Myers-Briggs, those true diagnostics? Or do we need a type quiz that has seven questions? And that's an example of one that we're building in the golf industry at the moment, and these people are running like a million dollars a month in ads to this quiz at the moment. So those are the two ends of the spectrum. None of them are better than the other. They are just different use cases. The one in the middle is what we call a score-based diagnostic, and this is really the most suitable option if you have intellectual property. If you think about it in book terms, what are the pillars of your methodology? What are the chapters of your book? Whereby we want to then append a score to how they're performing in that area. And the whole idea is that they're able to see where they've got high scores, medium scores, and low scores. And therefore, this builds desire and demand for the offer that we just defined at the very first stage. So choose your diagnostic assessment type would be the next stage. And then let's pretend you chose a score-based diagnostic. What you would want to do then is think about what are those pillars? Those become your category scores, right? Then within each of these big categories, what are the topics? What are the things that make up this particular area? Mm-hmm. right. And then from there, what are the questions that we can ask our potential client or lead coming through that, when they answer it in a certain way, that answer means that they are either getting this type of score or they're this type of label or person. Essentially, what we want to make sure here is that we have funnel congruence. Let's pretend we have an offer that we defined earlier that is all about synchronized swimming. And then we build diagnostic infrastructure and all of these categories and subcategories and questions. And those are all about gardening. So extreme example, but we can see there's a complete lack of funnel congruence, and the answer that they get and the result that they get does not lend itself well to the offer. So this is what happens whenever we use non-performing quizzes. There's always a disconnect. There's always a lack of congruence between the offers that people are making and the diagnostic criteria that they are using. Then once you've kind of mapped out all of those questions, there's a whole load of kind of statistical modeling about the scoring and the weighted scoring and inverse scoring and all of those types of things to make sure that people actually get the right result. Because this is also really important from a conversion perspective. People must get their result and be like, "Oh my goodness, this is very accurate. How do they know that I feel this way?" And then as you move in and build out your results engine, which is, we have these personalized results pages, personalized follow-up reports, the copy, as I mentioned earlier, is different depending on what result you got. So if you got, you know, a low score in this area and a medium score in this area and a high score in this area, you're going to see completely different copy to somebody that got a high-high-high or a high-medium-high. So that is very, very bespoke. And again, then your solution stack. When you are in these results pages and follow-up reports, you're able to say to them, "Here's your biggest area of struggle. Here's what's happening for you. Here's what it feels like. Here's what's going to continue to happen if we don't do something about it today." So bring in that urgency factor, and then, "Here's how you do something about it." And then hey presto, the offer that you position in front of them is tailored not only to exactly the results that they just got, but it's also aligned with what they've just told you that they're able to invest in themselves. So it just becomes what we call a no-brainer offer. So what comes first, then? Is it the book and/or the keynote or the quiz? So both work. We build a lot of these diagnostic assessments for people who are in their launch runway up to their pub date. And it's a really, really good mechanism. This is what Jen Kem did. She used it as a strategy. So that on her pub date, she was already on the bestseller list because she had pre sold so many of the books because we use that diagnostic as a lever inside of that launch. So that is one way to use it. The other way to use it is to have it inside of the fabric of the book. So if you're either starting writing your book or you're in play actually writing your book, weaving your diagnostic assessment into the fabric of the book turns every book buyer and every book leader into this hyper-segmented, hyper-qualified leads. And now, that doesn't end at the book. They are now inside of your ecosystem. You can then go on to nurture them and sell them into various programs over time. Now, on the flip side of that, another client of ours who is Mike Kim, he's a big keynote speaker in the States, and his book was a bestseller way back in 2020. And we are building his diagnostic now. And even though it isn't in the fabric of the book that was published way back then and all of the people that way back then, essentially, it becomes part of your ecosystem. So the assessment leads to the book, and the book leads to the assessment. And it becomes that piece that allows you to, when you are on the stage, when you are on a podcast, it allows your IP to bring more and more leads into your business in the long term and you can use it at both ends of your book launch. There's just different use cases depending on what stage you're at. Yeah. So, essentially, the book, combined with that diagnostic data, is really pre-selling the author's expertise, offers, brilliance—whatever you want to call it—and qualifying leads before sales calls even happen, which means that the sales call is more of a "Hey, I have a question about this, but I'm pretty much in" scenario versus what we were doing as entrepreneurs before and spending an hour on multiple sales calls to the same people to try and close them. Is that right? 100%. So basically, one of my biggest like X in life are these terms called discovery calls. Really high-end experts on the cusp of thought leadership and they wake up and they have five or 10 or 15 or whatever the number is discovery calls inside of their calendar. Well, there's going to be inside of that. We're going to have no shows. We're going to have tire-kickers. We're going to have maybe-later people. And yes, we will have people that convert, but it's a long slog to get to those conversions. And the beauty of the diagnostic is every single lead that, for example, comes into our company, we're able to pull up their profile. We're able to know exactly what they're struggling with, exactly where we want to focus our sales team, where we want to focus their attention. We don't have to, "So tell me all about yourself and what you're struggling with." We already know because they've been through the diagnostic. So we're able to both affirm, to say, "You know, in this area, you are absolutely fine. There's nothing you need there, but let's go and talk about X because we already know that that's the struggle." And also, we have so much data on what they, um, you know, they're in an ROI niche, for example, their revenue level, their team size, their email list size, their Facebook ad spend. We are able to classify how much they're willing to invest in themselves. We have all of that data prior to jumping on the call. So we're not getting to any awkward, you know, waiting for them to say, "How much is it?" We're already able to have those strategic conversations from the get go. And this is why our sales conversations and our client sales conversations are very much,"How does it work? When do we start?" And sometimes the question of like, "What's the impact on our team from a build perspective?" you know but It's "how" and "when" conversations, as opposed to "Is this even right for me?" conversations, because the diagnostic does that heavy lifting for you and for your sales team. Yep. Amazing. So you've worked with a lot of seven- and eight-figure thought leaders and entrepreneurs. What patterns and insights are you seeing when they're best using diagnostics to scale versus without it? Really great questions. So, essentially, what we're seeing is there are, you know, as we all know, there's we have to put water in the pipes. Just having said diagnostic doesn't mean a dang thing. We build done-for-you assessments for our clients. And I'm the first person to say, "Put in something on the Internet? Irrelevant. We've got to get water through the pipes. We have those organic choices. We have what I call scalable organic choices, and we have paid traffic choices. The paid traffic choices is going to get you data faster. So you're running water through your pipes, getting data faster on your market. And that's also going to show you, when people are going through your diagnostic, you're running cold Facebook ads, for example, and you're starting to see a trend of behavior of,"Gosh, we're getting a lot of people here who are only able to spend less than 10K." That tells us that our rich-niche positioning is off. That's telling us that the copy that we're using, the targeting that we're using, is attracting a certain type. It gives you kind of that immediate insight into what is happening in your top-of-funnel plates. That is one way you're going to get your results faster. So we do run paid traffic, but scalable organic is my favorite, where we do a lot of podcast guesting, we do a lot of keynote speaking, bringing your diagnostic to mastermind events to speaking on stage, all of those types of things, because there's a beautiful level of know, like, and trust through that scalable organic mechanism where there's already a connection. They have heard you speak. They have watched you on stage and then they go through your diagnostic, which then compounds everything they've just heard. And then for those who have, so just running organic only. I'll always use the example, it's like if you're a thought leader and you have, you know, 500 million followers. You sharing your diagnostic is going to get a lot of water through your pipes. But if you're posting once a month and you have six followers, that's not really going to be a needle-mover inside of the business. So what I'm noticing with these seven-, eight-, and sometimes even nine-figure entrepreneurs that we work with, these are some of the biggest, most famous names in the industry, they are leveraging the diagnostic through their kind of what I would call their book channel. So writing the book, launching the book, bringing their books, speaking on stage and using their book as the methodology, and the conversation that the keynotes are all about. They are running a blend of paid traffic. Then they're using the scalable organic, the podcast guest, and the speaking on stage to really bring in like a really warm audience through that diagnostic. And again, we can start to see difference in patterns buyer behavior from cold traffic versus scalable organic, and then for those who are also layered into your organic strategies. But again, it depends on your audience size as to how that is going to perform. One of my favorite ways to get started with this, we have a lot of clients and they're like, "Well, I've got 500,000 people on my email list. I feel like I've wasted all of those leads because, you know, we don't have them segmented." Part of the launch strategy of your diagnostic is to push every person on your existing email list back through your diagnostic. So yes, it's not a new lead, but you're already getting all of this data, all of this insight into the people that you're serving and then how you can better serve them. And it never fails to tell us exactly why those who we are, we're trying to sell a square peg round hole. We're trying to sell something to people that don't want what we have to offer. But when you put them through the diagnostic, you realize that's why they were never going to buy that thing in the first place. And we're able to then write offers to the right people at the right time. Amazing. All right. So we've got them going through what you call The Client Engine. If someone is wanting to start this process, what are the first steps they should take? So the first step is IP mapping. That's the fancy term for basically what is your intellectual property? What is your methodology? What is your framework? You're, you know, there's a thousand ways to call this thing. So if you are an au—prescriptive nonfiction author, what is the IP that you are sharing? We want to get that into a structured format where we're able to clearly categorize, you know, this pillar, this pillar, and this pillar. We got to have intellectual property. And a lot of people don't necessarily call it that. They just have their way that they get brilliant transformation for their clients. So the first stage is really being able to extract that IP and understand how that could even turn into a diagnostic in the first place. And having this, these offers as well is really, really important. So we don't want to, let's pretend we have offers that aren't converting overly well. What can a quiz funnel assessment in front of that isn't going to solve for that problem? So we want to make sure that we have offers that are converting. We know that people want what we have, but what we're actually struggling with is knowing what is the right offer for the right person, and often what's happening is we're doing this blanket marketing. We're sending the same stuff to everybody on our list, hoping that something's going to stick instead of having that specific prescription. So having those offers, knowing that they're solving for the right problems is really, really important. So I can see also then that I know a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with their offer as well, exactly what to include in it, how to market it, how to write the sales page, all that sort of thing. So I can see that a diagnostic tool like the ones that you are creating can help them to clarify their message and sell it effectively, which is absolutely gold in the market, right? I would love to hear about your favorite diagnostic. Give us an example that has completely changed the game for one of your clients. This is one of the ones that's a multi-factor diagnostic. It was for Jen Kem, who wrote the bestselling book, Unicorn Teen. And essentially, she built into this, and we built into this as we were designing it, virality component where she used it as a pre book pub strategy to get tens of thousands of sales before her book even got published. What she did was, the way we built this, that it was a very, very shareable thing. And people go through it. So I, for example, am a mobilizing strategizer. That was my result at the end of taking the assessment. It is eerily accurate, so specific, and so much value in the report that you get. It literally is like, like bearing your soul and you really realize, "Oh my goodness, this is how I perform. This is why I am, you know, this little tech gremlin that, you know, that works in the background. This is why this is my zone of genius." And that does a couple of things. A, it really allows you to lean into that as the user of the assessment. How this became so powerful and how she was able to sell like hundred-thousand-dollar contracts off the back of her assessment was that not only did you get that insight, but everybody started to talk about, "Oh, well, what are you? And what are you?" There's this conversation happening around people having this dawning realization as to what their Unicorn Leadership Type was, the realization of, "Here's why things are the way they are inside my company." So we put all of our team through the same assessment, started to understand, "Here's why, you know, these people maybe are already butting heads," or, "This is why these two people work so well together," because they had complementary types, and it becomes this shareable. This is a kind of building in this virality piece and not in the cheap and nasty way, but in a true"Here's my result, what's yours?" And then the next person would take it and the next person would take it and the next person would take it. And then that ultimately just turns into a massive flywheel that sells not just more, more copies for the book launch day because that's done and dusted, but it turns into a perennial bestseller because it's a continuing conversation out there in the market. Yep, awesome. So just to clarify, is there a difference between a quiz and a diagnostic? Yeah, absolutely. So what I would say is those are the three pieces that we talked about earlier. So that the quiz funnel is more kind of on the fun end of things, super high volume of leads coming through, maybe six or seven questions, probably a single-question diagnostic that there's only actually one question in there that is determined in their results. And that is kind of more what I would say fun. It's a really, really, really useful thing. A really useful lead magnet, but it doesn't probably have the gravitas that a Unicorn Leadership Type or an Enneagram or that type of diagnostic, the multi-factor. So those are kind of the two ends of the spectrum. The quiz funnel is the quick, fast, easy, qualified lead generator. The multi-factor diagnostic at the other end of the spectrum is where essentially your IP becomes a household name. So Myers-Briggs, I'm INTJ. Everybody knows their Myers-Briggs. They know their result. It becomes a household name. And then between these two, it's not the lesser cousin. This is a super, super powerful diagnostic. The diagnostic we have inside our company is a score-based diagnostic. And this is the one where if you have pillars inside of your methodology, where you're appending, giving people a score or telling them how they're getting on inside each of these pillars. And therefore, here's why my offer works for you. That is a score-based diagnostics. So those are the three main types and it's just a case by case basis. One isn't better than the other. It just depends on your intellectual property. I know we've spoken about it working for our high-ticket offers. What about scalable digital products? Yeah, so this is absolutely incredibly powerful. Yeah, it works amazingly well for those. One of the things we do when we're designing those offers that we talk about. So what is your ascension model or what is your dissension model? And part of that can be we ran this for years whenever I had a group coaching, you know, kind of 10K program that I ran for five years before we moved into complete done-for-you services. And that was the model of the $47 courses with the $7 bump and the$97 OTO and then enter $997 and then into your 10k. That was essentially the structure. But at the back end of the diagnostic, it was always starting with that micro product. So somebody comes through, they tell us their biggest struggle area was creating an offer that converts."Well, hey, presto, here's our micro product or $47 thing that shows you how to create a converting coaching offer, consulting offer." Yep. the positioning of those micro products works beautifully. Yep, that makes total sense. So we've spoken a lot about all things data, which, I mean, I find very interesting, but we also want to know about you as a person, Maeve, because you are pretty incredible balancing running a multi-six-figure consultancy, raising two young kids living on a horse farm, which, by the way, is incredibly cool. What does sustainable success—because us mamas, we run multiple businesses, we do all the things that motherhood requires, but it has to be sustainable otherwise we burn out. And there's not enough coffee in the world that can sustain us then. So what does sustainable success look like for you? Yeah, I love this. This really, really speaks to me. So a number of years back, and I'll give you the CliffNotes version, I am in my early thirties. You know, it was a long, time ago now, but I caught a virus, and I spent four years in bed. So I was in a wheelchair, could not lift, had to have cup of tea, just horribly ill for four years. And so every single thing inside of our company, every single thing inside of our business, is built with such intentionality that that never happens again. And these are different now because, as you said, I have two young kids at the time of recording. They are five and three. So still pretty little and easier than it was months ago, but they're still pretty little. And then we have a horse farm with about 60 horses, 30 cattle, a dog, a cat, all the things. Swimming lessons, just started school, crash, everything. And building that, the scalable, sustainable business around what I call real life, essentially, for us that comes down to agentic AI solutions. Before you used to scale with team you had more and more people, and whenever I worked in the private equity industry and managed a team of 47 people, I'm a really good leader, really good manager. But scaling a team and running a team and growing a team requires a lot of time, and this is why we have gone very heavy on agentic AI solutions. We still have our core ninja team, of course, but we're leveraging agentic AI where possible inside of the company, from marketing to sales to client delivery to operations to finance, building all of these solutions, both for our own business and for all of our clients. For example, our YouTube production agent or our podcast production agent collapses what used to be 12 hours of work and VAs and all of the things that is now an agentic AI solution that has that thing sorted in minutes. No horrible AI, like, AI written copy or any of those awful things. Everything is in our own words, but we're using really smart solutions to allow us to leverage our time. Yeah. So for those people whose calendars are still booked out with the 20 plus discovery calls a day that they're having to spend an hour each on, that is just sucking the joy and the life out of their souls. What is one piece of advice that you would say to those people to stop chasing leads and start attracting them? Building a diagnostic is a piece of work. So there's an infrastructure build there. So it is not whack it up, and it'll be live tomorrow. What I would suggest there as you're building this in the background over the next takes about 30 days, as you're building that diagnostic infrastructure in the background, shift your rich-niche positioning. And this was the single move that I made inside of my business that shifted me from serving the life coaches of the world who didn't really have their own IP and they maybe woke up and decided, "Maybe I'll be a life coach," serving that end of the market to instead being sought-after by the biggest, biggest names of the industry. Selena Soo is a client of mine. John Briggs is a client of mine. Jen Kem is a client of mine. Mike Kim. All of these, like, people that I used to literally idolize. These people are now coming to me. They are now my clients because of this rich-niche positioning shift. The simple version of how to make that work is whenever we look at our copy, whenever we look at our positioning, are we speaking to and attracting the broke-ass end of our market, the struggle-bus people, or are we speaking to those that we know like, you know, I already know you are amazing at what you do. You have intellectual property? You're probably already at multi-seven figures. Here's the problem, though. Your IP ends inside the book. Your IP ends in the stage. And if you aren't on, the lead flow stops. The qualified lead flow stops. That is a very different human being. Speaking about keynote, speaking about having written a book. That's a very different person to somebody where you're saying, "Do you want to create and sell your group coaching offer?" It's completely different. So speak to different aspirations, speak to different air quotes, hate the word struggles, but speak to different struggles, because whenever you're helping rich-niche people, their problems are entirely different to the problems of the struggle-bus people in your market. Yep, 100%. That's the quick and easy 24-hour shift. I love it. If only only took 24 hours, that would be amazing, wouldn't it? Now, Maeve, what is one thing that we haven't spoken about yet in this area that we should have? Ooh, I feel it is the flywheel effect of how this one piece of infrastructure can completely transform every aspect of the business. There's so much freaking noise out there. Everything is noisy. Everything is busy. We feel like we're driving people to a hundred different places. When we have this one real diagnostic piece of infrastructure, marketing becomes simpler. Selling becomes simpler. All of the, you know, what are the angles? What are the plays? What are the moves? Strategic planning becomes simpler because the the agentic solutions that are built onto the back end of these assessments tell us exactly what to do. It helps us with client delivery. So you're able to assess people as they're coming through the door and then you're able to measure and monitor where they are after three months, after six months, after 12 months of working with you. Not only does that give your client the feeling of progress and success and that they're doing really well, but it also provides you with a testimonial flight where you actually have the data and the metrics to prove and show, "Here is the shift from when people start working with me within 90 days. Here's the average of what happens within 120 days. Here's the average of what happens. So These assessments give you so much ammunition for all of the departments inside your company. It's not just a quiz fill. It's not just a way to, you know, whack up this little thing and generate a few leads. It is a fundamental part of the infrastructure of thought leader businesses. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Maeve, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us today. I think you are so incredibly smart and inspirational, and I love what you've created. So thank you so much for your time. Before I let you run though, and this is purely selfish on my behalf to build my amazing to-be-read list, because I own a publishing company as well as doing UGC modeling, all that fun stuff. We want to what book has impacted you either personally or professionally? So this book, it isn't out long, but I have already have a dog ears. I have read it and reread it and read it and reread it and read it. I would call myself like a gremlin. Like I just get lost in backend infrastructure. I love it. But that doesn't necessarily help you in the realm of networking, conversing with people. I go to a lot of events, go to a lot of masterminds, etc. And I call myself kind of an awkward person. So I'm the one that is like, "Oh, think of something cool to say." Like, that's just how I feel. Probably it know what comes across like that, but that's how I'm feeling internally. Selena Soo. So we built her diagnostic for her amazing bestseller book called Rich Relationships. And this is my book that I would recommend because it is literally her lifetime body of work inside of this one book. And it has helped me so immensely. It has helped me really understand the power of relationship-building and how important it is. But most importantly, how to do it well and how to do it intentionally and how to build the right relationships with the right people in a really natural way. I can only describe it as completely transformed my business. I get invitations now to speak on stages. I'm in all of these rooms with things that I used to dream about a few years back. And it's happening fast because I've read the book. I have absorbed the book. I'm implementing the book. It is a really, really powerful read. Amazing. I actually haven't read that one yet, but you've sold it to me already. So I'm gonna go and hop on that. Maeve, thank you so much for being a guest on The Tarryn Reeves Show today. For those of you watching and listening, please follow along on our socials, leave us a review, share the love, and until next time, we will see you. Thank you so much for having me, Tarryn. I really enjoyed the conversation. My absolute pleasure.